Disconnect: Mainliners and Evangelicals in “Emergent” Conversation

I have been around the emergent conversation for about eight years now. In the first few years, my contact was mainly isolated to an emergent group (Jacob's Well) meeting in our church building. Over the last four years, I have read more widely, attended an Emergent YM conference, hung out at Glorieta, NM, and involved myself in various websites and blogs.

From the beginning, it has struck me that the emergent conversation was an evangelical and ex-evangelical phenomenon. Most of what I have experienced and read over the years confirms that perception, at least for the USA conversation. In recent years, the conversation has spread beyond evangelical circles. Folks from mainline denominations have been entering the discussion. While attending the Emergent Convention in Nashville last year, I was in a group with about 300 randomly chosen people when asked how many of us were from mainline denominations. Fully two-thirds of the people raised their hands.

I am sure there were differing definitions of what "mainline" means. When I use the term, I am referring to the old traditional definition of mainline, which includes the following denominations and their predecessors: American Baptist Churches (USA), Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Episcopal Church (USA), Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Presbyterian Church (USA), United Church of Christ, United Methodist Church, United Church of Christ. I doubt all those raising their hands were from one of these denominations. Still, the presence of mainliners was substantial. This presents some interesting challenges for the emergent conversation.

Evangelical and mainline participants have been propelled into the emergent conversation from different contexts. Here is how I would contrast the two contexts. (I apologize for oversimplifying here. I do so for brevity.)

Historical Context

Many USA emergent evangelicals have come to the conversation from very conservative/fundamentalist contexts, especially Southern Baptist and independent church settings. The congregations in these contexts have been at the margins of society for most of the last century and, until the previous generation, have tended to be culturally isolationist. They have seen themselves as the champions of biblical inerrancy and the authority of the Word. Cultural changes in the 1960s led to a re-engagement with culture in the 1970s, mainly focused on conserving critical social institutions.

Mainline denominations dominated Christianity up until the 1960s. They were the churches of the culture and tended to be seen as the institutions that provided the moral underpinning for American society. The changes in the 1960s, especially the civil rights movement, brought mainliners into the protest arena. Since then, the leadership of the mainline denominations has tended to find its unity in public policy advocacy and has largely abandoned embodying the person of Jesus Christ in its members and congregations. While the professional and elected leadership is decidedly left-leaning in theology and politics, the rank-and-file tends to be more moderate to conservative.

Ecclesiology

The evangelical context has tended to produce congregations led by charismatic leaders. Many evangelicals seem to come from small legalistic congregations, large program-driven mega-churches, or Baby-Boomer-style contemporary churches. Commitment to the congregation's institutions is often seen as a sign of fidelity to faith in God.

Mainliners find themselves in dwindling denominations once highly respected in the culture. They had bureaucracies for addressing every concern and need. Members dutifully looked to the denominational structures for guidance. With the shift from embodiment to protest, many mainline members have become alienated from the denominational structures even as the structures disintegrate. Styles of worship are often seen as archaic, and there is considerable mistrust about people's motives in denominational structures. Theological ignorance has become widespread. Commitment to the Church's institutions and traditions is often considered above theological concerns.

Theology

The evangelical context has largely been about preserving fundamental doctrine, or at least the authority of Scripture, from erosion by "liberal" theology. In doing so, it has often used overly rationalistic tools in service of a fierce commitment to inerrancy or something very close to it.

The mainline denominations have focused on the "scholarly" study of Scripture, which has often embraced various "progressive" theologies that usually support the prophetic protest of this or that injustice. Running deep underneath all this is the notion of a universal experience of God common to everyone. By being inclusive of all voices, we will be better able to hear the voice of God. Universalism is sometimes implied if not affirmed. Scripture becomes an inspirational guide to hearing God's voice but has little authority over daily practice.

Public Policy and Witness

Those coming from the evangelical context find conservative Republican politics strongly evidenced in their leadership and their congregations. The Republican Party platform and the public policy statements for churches in this context are usually one and the same.

Those from the mainline context are usually moderate to conservative in their politics, but the leadership is decidedly left leaning. Thus, the public policy statements issued look like copies of the Democrat Party platform. Furthermore, this center-right view of the membership with the leftist view of the leadership creates endless skirmishes over a host of issues. The fight over ordination to the ministry of people engaging in homosexual activity has been on the agenda of national meetings for almost thirty years now.

The Disconnect

What I see at work in both contexts is a combination of institutional and theological disenchantment, yet the disenchantment is markedly different in the two contexts.

When it comes to worship, evangelical emergents (EE) often seek something more authentic and mystery filled than a Bible teaching with sentimental hymns or canned praise music. I think mainline emergents (ME) are looking for the same out of dissatisfaction with what they feel are stale and outmoded traditions that have lost their ability to communicate symbolically. Though coming at the issues from slightly different angles, I think emergents from both traditions are moving on more or less parallel paths.

I think both EEs and MEs sense that our ecclesiology is broken. I hear considerable consensus about the need for embodiment and authentic community. The MEs don't seem ready to abandon their structures as many EEs have, but I think there are strong kindred spirits when exploring ecclesiology.

I think the stark contrast comes into play in the areas of theology and public witness. EEs almost universally come to the conversation wanting to broaden the discussion from narrow legalistic confines. They want to explore emerging ways of understanding biblical authority. The MEs come from two streams. One stream is more theologically liberal and rejoices at what they see as the emergent shift in their direction. The other stream is more theologically orthodox but has rejected the legalistic inerrancy stance of fundamentalism. It has also come to reject and actively resist the liberal theological streams within their own contexts. They, too, are looking for a new way to be the church. I would place myself among the latter group.

From the perspective I have just described, the emergent conversation is very refreshing. The questions are being asked in the evangelical circles that orthodox MEs have been wrestling with for years. That is the good part. The downside is that many of the explored avenues sound no different than the progressive mindset we are inundated with in our mainline denominational structures. The dialog is often anything but new to us.

Similarly, I can appreciate the desire of EEs to distance themselves from the Religious Right. Yet I often get the sense that the desire to be contra-evangelical is driving the public witness of too many EEs. Not everything the Religious Right champions is necessarily wrong, and the rush to embrace every progressive political cause is not an appropriate Christ-directed response either.

I think the confusion in all this is much larger than I had originally thought. When EEs begin articulating progressive views that sound much too familiar to orthodox MEs, the MEs are inclined to tune them out as liberal modernists. When MEs begin articulating views about the abuse of Scripture or giving positive assessments of political views also championed by the Religious Right, there is a tendency for EMs to dismiss MEs as conservative modernists. That is my take as one mainline participant in the conversation. I have no grand solutions to offer. Just something to think about.


Comments

17 responses to “Disconnect: Mainliners and Evangelicals in “Emergent” Conversation”

  1. I think you’re on to something here. Gotta think on it more. (Besides I’m still thinking about weddings and stuff! You’re way faster than I am here!)
    RPS

  2. Timothy Avatar
    Timothy

    Well writen piece. As a Catholic ,I see the EE movement as changing the course of Protestantism towards an eventual reunification with Mother Church.

  3. Is it that I an “on to something” or just “on something”? *grin* You certainly are uniquely qualified to address these issues.
    As to writing posts, some of us (like you) do the work of the church while others of us write about it. *grin*

  4. Thanks Timothy! Actually, we all will be united one day. It is just unclear wether it is this side of Jesus return or not. *grin*

  5. What do you think of the mostly mainline terminology of “Practicing Congregations” as the mainline version of “Emerging Congregations” or “Emergent” Do you think “Practicing Congregation” is another description of “ME”?

  6. Hi Kirk. I only recent learned of “Practicing Congregations.” Your comment prompted me to go check out their website which I have now added a link to under my “Emergent Links” section.
    Yes, I do think PC is one stream of the church that is emerging but I can’t say how much PC people and Emergent people are in conversation with each other. Rodger or anyone else out there have any take on this?
    Are you connected with PC Kirk? Love to hear more of your thoughts.

  7. Mike, this is an excellent synopsis. (Meaning, of course, that you put into words something I’ve been observing and having trouble “grasping”.)
    I generally regard the goals / ideals of emergents as positive, but I have struggled with the (to my perception) strong leftward bent in the realm of politics. Considering Christianity mostly apolitical, I’m very uncomfortable with the politics of the religious right and the religious left. Being a Presbyterian, the religious left is a more pronounced problem . . . but you account for that very well in the Emergent Evangelical camp — they’re reacting as much to an abuse as those of us coming from the mainline perspective are. We’ve been beat over the head with so-called “social justice” issues (many (not all) of which strike members as both immoral and counter-biblical); they’ve been swamped with “religious right” issues (many (not all) of which are equally biblically unsustainable).

  8. Thanks Will. It is good to hear that others are connecting with what I have described here. Still not sure what to do about it but it helps me to at least be able to name the problem.
    BTW, glad to see you are back on the web. We missed you.

  9. A very good synopsis, I’d say. But I think there are some concepts missing from this discussion as well:
    I come from an ME background: PCUSA elder in a mega-church (4,000+ members). We are in the midst of the worst of the “left” and the “right”: we are trapped in a denomination run by very “left” leadership, and our people/practices seem to reflect the worst of the “right”.
    My own participation in the Emerging conversation comes from strong desire to get out of the “culture wars” altogether. I’m very tired of having every idea being judged only on how it will allow us to beat the tar out of the other side. Enough, already! Stop the bickering!
    What if we just spent some time thinking about Jesus, talking about Jesus, and (especially!) listening to Jesus? From what I can tell, He would make everyone who delights in the culture wars very upset. From his words, it’s not clear that he would endorse invading Iraq or teaching intelligent design. But it’s also not clear that he would embrace “re-imagining God” or support indian-hispanic-african-latin-american “rights”.
    So some of us want to talk about Jesus, and think about an ecclesiology that allows us to follow Him. Without the baggage from the culture wars, whichever side we used to be on.
    BTW: the minimalist approach to the emerging conversation allow us to view it as a discussion of policy positions. Some of us are being transformed by it, and we are thinking about the concepts of pastors, and institutionalized churches, and 10,000-person sanctuaries, and our neighbor. What if all of this, from the left or the right, is not what Jesus intended?
    That’s the emerging conversation I want to be part of: What was Jesus interested in?

  10. Kruse on a Mainline and Evangelical Emergent disconnect…

    I don’t have enough time this holy week to cogitate extensively on Michael Kruse’s good post, but I wanted to commend it to you for your meditation. Here is how his post starts:Disconnect: Mainliners and Evangelicals in Emergent Conversation I

  11. I think David and I are probably both coming from and headed in the same direction here. (Something I’ll get to at the end.)
    Some thoughts:
    “An evangelical and ex-evangelical phenomenon… begun to spread beyond evangelical circles.” Mike’s on target here: Looking backwards in time, there has seemed to be a sense of “insider / outsider” within the “conversation.” Even as late as 2004, I spent time in conversations and at conventions where there still were those lingering comments about ME’s as “them” bandied about. (It still happens in some areas, and the emergence of Emergent (no pun intended) as a more clearly defined “group” could potentially exacerbate that.) Yet in the larger EC I don’t hear that anywhere as often now, mainly due to the fact that there are many of us who own this as “our conversation also.” (Go figure: When Doug Pagitt stops making “Presbyterian” jokes in seminars you know there’s a growing acceptance of ME participation! Perhaps due to the fact that so many emergent churches are now worshiping in former PCUSA space?)
    “Fully 2/3’s raised their hands.” Sure: we might be late coming into the conversation but we’re discovering our own church / culture / etc. to be broken also. I don’t know if some EE’s sense the growing ME presence in the conversation to be a type of co-opting or not but think it’s potentially a healthy thing. (McLaren sure seems to accept this and see it as potentially positive.)
    The challenges ME’s bring to the emergent conversation are also positives, IMO. We’re coming to this from a different starting point than EE’s are but I’m more interested in the intersection / overlapping, and the potential for where do we all go from here? (This very much relates to what DSR is talking about above.) Is there a sense of a re-awakening of ecumenical thought / community from folks coming from past cultures that treated one another as anathema? Or perhaps this relates to the culture wars we’ve been fighting for so long over labels that perhaps weren’t as worth fighting over as we thought? The differing contextual starting points behind many of us now immersed in this growing conversation aren’t really as important to me as what lies ahead. (Historically significant to all of us and fascinating / interesting historically but that all takes second place in my thinking.)
    I’m hoping that the sense of convergence we’re beginning to see is both a challenge and a hope. EE’s are coming from a different theological starting place to an appreciation of many things we ME’s have long taken for granted. (When someone shares with me their excitement of “discovering” Walter Bruggemann, I almost laugh: We’ve “had him” for 30 years.) ME’s are coming to territory that EE’s have long felt comfortable in: We’re actually re-discovering how to talk passionately about Jesus without having to sound like something off of bad cable TV.
    In a sense, we need each other. The convergence / looking ahead has all the possibility of a healthy gestalt that the artificial / modern “labels” kept us all from embracing. (E.G. “Is this Liberal? Is that too Fundamentalist? Are they Right Wing? What about those Left Wingers?” I wonder if some of what Will’s talking about fits here?) Perhaps all the easy and stark distinctions are yet more marks of a different divide: Modern / Postmodern? (That’s WAY to simplistic but it points me to a reframing of contexts that many of us are working through regardless of our starting points.)
    Mike’s right: We’re all realizing that it’s broken. “It” just may be broken in different ways and for different reasons due to where we’re coming from. (Again I hit this theme: Let’s move FORWARD – make a few mistakes here and there – I don’t really care if we get some of “it” wrong at first and have to backtrack / correct / seek forgiveness, etc. – and am not sure God does as much as we (some) might think, and see what grows around us.)
    Sure, there are some things that EE’s are bringing to the table that are old hat to us and vice versa, but let’s not forget that for many of us there’s still a whole lot of deconstruction going on. How to have this be a healthy process where we lead from strengths and follow others in our weaknesses is a key – and perhaps one of the hardest things involved! I’m a bit skittish when it comes to trying to “outline” too many of these things in nice, neat packages – like using the term “orthodox” and “ME” side by side. I think the tendency to let “reframing” slide into re-defining, thus re-compartmentalizing is awfully easy. (Then again, I’m perfectly willing to live in larger amounts of ambiguity than some.)
    As to the Practicing Congregations stuff – it’s brand new to me and I’ve just briefly scanned the website. Seems some of the same language is being used as in the EC – some of the Ancient / Future type stuff Weber promotes, and a fair amount of deconstruction / reframing. I really like the idea of talking about “vitality” as opposed to “success” and think these are important factors that we need to continually beat ourselves over the head with. (We’re still so attached to “numbers” as the ONE indicator of success that I sometimes want to scream.) I do wonder as I read about this “project” heading towards publication of a book for “mainline protestants” – It seems to have a lot of “marker” language about “us” involved – makes me ask is it an “in house” version of the emergent conversation to run totally on a parallel track? Why is there no instance of seeking input from all the EC churches that are already doing what they are looking into? For goodness sake, agree with them theologically not, Vintage Faith, Jacob’s Well, Solomon’s Porch, Cedar Ridge, etc. already have years under their belt! Why assume there’s nothing to learn from “outside the box” of mainline Protestantism? This strikes me, at first reading, as more of the same: Modernity meant everyone having their own little sandbox as opposed to learning how to all play in a bigger, more diverse (dare I say it?), more vital one.
    Which brings me back to coinciding with David and Timothy above. My hope is to see us all, from across the board spiritually, theologically, politically, etc. look at the present convergence and begin to ask how we can move forward together?

  12. Excellent comments, Dave. Thanks.
    “So some of us want to talk about Jesus, and think about an ecclesiology that allows us to follow Him. Without the baggage from the culture wars, whichever side we used to be on.”
    Sign me up!
    “Some of us are being transformed by it, and we are thinking about the concepts of pastors, and institutionalized churches, and 10,000-person sanctuaries, and our neighbor. What if all of this, from the left or the right, is not what Jesus intended?”
    Excellent question but don’t ask to loudly. It might imply we would have to change!
    “What was Jesus interested in”
    Even better question!

  13. Thanks for these great insights Roger! I especially like your exhortation to move forward. What I have been finding is number of “communication wrecks” in conversations and trying to figure out how better to aviod them. The only reason for looking book is to more effectively go forward.
    As I noted in the post, I was oversimplifying and your post (as well as others) helps give more texture. Your observation about modern vs postmodern is helpful too. I had thoughts on this that I did not include for sake of brevity. Maybe I will say more in a later post.Also, I too have sensed a widening of the conversation that is including more mainline perspectives at least in what I am reading.
    Thanks for a very thoughtful response!

  14. I guess I will be the mainliner to say that I think we need to ask why the interest in Emergent among mainliners. I am a student at a PCUSA seminary and I will say that probably 90% of the students that go to the Emergent cohorts from this seminary tend to be on the more conservative side of the spectrum. All of them also tend to be white.
    My point is that I think that the many of the mainliners that are interested in Emergent are mainliners that went Evangelical during some point in their lives, but never find it fully satisfying and so they went back to the mainline. They, like all of us, are still looking for something that’s missing from the church life and so Emergent appeals to them greatly.
    Also, while Emergent may be doing some new things, theologically speaking alot of it seems like pretty old news to many mainliners. It may not be, but I have heard that stated by many mainliners. To us, beyond the worship forms there really doesn’t seem to be very much that is progressive about the whole endeavor. So, its very easy for mainliners to slip right in to many of the broad strokes of Emergent’s emerging theology(s).

  15. “I am a student at a PCUSA seminary and I will say that probably 90% of the students that go to the Emergent cohorts from this seminary tend to be on the more conservative side of the spectrum.”
    Fascinating observation. I am probably a generation ahead of you. I have met many in their late thirties and older who are intrigued with emergent because they came out of more evangelical settings into mainline settings but have never quite fully embraced it. The don’t feel fully at home in either world. Thanks for your perspective, Matt.

  16. I guess the point that I was trying to get across was that just because they are mainline, doesn’t mean they aren’t evangelicals. Once again, our categories and classifications fall short of the realities that we describe.

  17. Gotcha Matt. There have always been evangeliecals in mainline denoms but then their are evangelicals who have come from denoms/congregations that are evangelical.

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